The Worship Table
The Worship Table Podcast is a space for worship pastors and creative leaders to find honest conversation, practical encouragement, and soul-level care. Hosted by seasoned worship leaders, each episode unpacks the joys and challenges of leading worship—and reminds you that you don’t have to lead alone. This podcast is just the beginning; deeper connection happens inside The Worship Table online community, where live prayer, coaching, and real relationships are waiting. Join the conversation and take your seat at the table.
The Worship Table
Building a Healthy Worship Culture with Hope Adams
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What makes a worship team thrive beyond musical excellence? How do you balance talent and character when building a worship ministry? Hope Adams, who oversees campus worship pastors at Gateway Church, pulls back the curtain on their intentional approach to creating healthy worship cultures.
The conversation begins with Gateway's distinctive onboarding process. Rather than conducting traditional auditions, they employ evaluations followed by a 4-6 week coaching journey addressing both musical craft and spiritual formation. This deliberate pace ensures team members are not only talented but aligned with the ministry's heart and values. "We are quick to not hurry people through that process," Hope explains, "because who we put on that platform needs character that matches their gift."
Language matters in cultivating culture. Gateway intentionally uses "platform" instead of "stage" – a subtle but powerful distinction communicating that worship leadership is about influence rather than performance. This perspective shapes how team members view their responsibilities both in worship services and daily life.
Perhaps most compelling is the framework Hope shares for navigating conflict within creative teams. She advocates for "kind truth" – a balanced approach that avoids both artificial harmony and mean-spirited attacks. By building relational equity first, preparing thoroughly for difficult conversations, and ensuring clear next steps, worship leaders can address issues while preserving dignity and trust.
For those hiring worship pastors, Hope emphasizes that coachability and humility outrank even exceptional talent. "About 60-70% of what a worship pastor does happens off-platform," she notes, highlighting the essential pastoral component of the role. Effective worship leaders must not only connect people with God but develop others and share leadership opportunities.
Whether you lead a large worship department or a small volunteer team, this conversation offers practical wisdom for intentionally building a culture where excellence and authenticity flourish together. What emerges clearly is that healthy worship teams don't happen by accident – they're cultivated through clear values, consistent communication, and leaders who truly care about who people are becoming.
The Worship Table is a sacred space for worship pastors and creative leaders—a place of rest, renewal, and real connection. Just as the Lord’s Table welcomes all, this Table exists to refresh those who pour out week after week. Through mentorship, shared experiences, and deep community, we invite you to step away from isolation and into a space of belonging, encouragement, and growth. You don’t have to lead alone—there is a place for you here.
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Introduction to Healthy Worship Culture
Speaker 1I'm sitting here at the worship table , and today I have Michael Neal with me , and then I have Hope Adams and I'm Mark Harris , and we're going to talk today about something that I think is very important , and that's how to build and maintain a very healthy worship culture . We can go to onboarding people and then to the continuation of pastoring the team and then what happens when there is unhealth and you have to address that .
Speaker 3Yes .
Speaker 1And just you know some of the things that you've , you know , learned and some of the things that you've instilled in worship here at Gateway because you oversee our campus worship pastors and the campus teams , and so I guess the first thing that I would love to just kind of bring up Hope is what have you learned ? What is the best way of onboarding and developing people to serve on worship teams ?
Speaker 3Yeah , well , I'll say this , mark , I have been in worship ministry for about 25 years now , which , yes , I'm old , I'm not going to tell you how old I am .
Speaker 2but yes , I'm seasoned Started when you were 15 .
Speaker 3Yeah , started when I was 13 years old . So I've been in different environments . I've been in smaller environments , I've been in larger
Intentional Onboarding and Coaching Process
Speaker 3environments and I will say , when I came here to Gateway in 2015 , I was so impressed with the level of intentionality , with the way we evaluate or how some churches call it audition people but then coming the next steps after that audition or that evaluation , the level of intentionality of onboarding people and what that looks like and what we call at Gateway is our coaching process . So we don't call it auditions , we call it evaluations . So once a person evaluates , the next step is then they go through coaching . Coaching can last four to six weeks depending on the group and the level of craft that they are and even where they are spiritually . But that coaching process is twofold . It is craft and just helping them to assess their craft , but then also helping to kind of implement and integrate them into our culture , worship culture . But then the second aspect of it is the spiritual side of it and we are so intentional to number one find out first where they are spiritually . And we are so intentional to number one find out first where they are spiritually but then to ensure that they are getting the heart and the values of worship that we have here at Gateway .
Speaker 3We've been privileged to have amazing teams that are able to put together videos and that type of thing , so we actually have resources that we've created and they're actually available to anyone . So if you're listening and you need resources for your church , you could go to Gateway Worship Training Resources on YouTube and they are all free . But we require every team member to go through that coaching process and to go through all those videos During our coaching nights . For us at our campuses , coaching nights happen on Tuesday nights . They come together , they kind of do like a little bit of a family time together talk through , recap the videos or what is God speaking through all of this . And then the practical application getting on the platform and how do we approach sound check . How do we approach ? How do you mix a good in-air mix and what does our rehearsal process look like ? All those types of things .
Speaker 3But there is a level of intentionality and we are quick to not speed up or hurry people through that process , because we feel it is so important that who we put on that platform is not only talented , not only gifted , but their heart and their character is where it needs to be . Again , I can say from my own experience I know what it's like . My first time to become a worship pastor I was 21 years old . I was kind of thrust into the position at my home church and we were volunteer driven and just being thrown into that and feeling the pressure of like , oh my gosh , I need a guitar player this weekend . What are we going to do ? And if we're not careful as worship pastors , we can allow those outside pressures to kind of drive us and we become reactive to how we make decisions as opposed to proactive and really allowing our values as a worship team and the values of worship in our church to drive the decisions we make , as opposed to the needs we feel like we have driving our decisions if that makes sense .
Speaker 1I like that you used the term . I mean , it's something that I learned when I got here to Gateway was we choose to use the name platform .
Speaker 3Yeah , yes .
Speaker 1Explain that just a little bit .
Speaker 3Yeah , so the language we use , we don't use stage because and again the intentionality of that To us stage is a place of performance , platform is a place of influence . So it's important for us that our team realizes , when they step on that platform , you are on that platform , realizing it is a great honor and a privilege and we carry influence , we influence people when we are on that platform .
Speaker 1It's a subtle thing to just say to the person that's coming on board the team hey , this is how we want you to view this . That's right Like . We want you to view this as a place where you have influence . So that also means that
Platform vs. Stage: A Place of Influence
Speaker 1if you're on the platform and people see you there , then how you live off the platform is important , because they see you there , you're in leadership , you have influence , so carry yourself off the platform in a way that would allow people that when they see you on the platform to respect and appreciate what you're doing .
Speaker 2So give us an example of someone that's come into your context . You know , freddie Singer . Whatever he's a singer and he wants to come and be a part of .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2What are the markers you're looking for ? That's good of what are the markers you're looking for , like are there ? Things are there stop gaps in your process that go . Okay , we see that we can't really platform this person yet , because we'd be platforming them ahead of their Prematurely , prematurely , yeah so what are the things that you're kind of watching for in maturity and in the journey ?
Speaker 3That's a great question , so spiritually kind of those checkpoints for us . We're taking time when we're doing the family gatherings , when we're having those conversations about heart and things . What's coming out of them , out of the abundance of the heart , and the mouth speaks . So what's coming out of them ? What are they saying ? And then also our campus worship pastors are very intentional , as team members are onboarding , they're taking them to coffee , to lunches , getting to know that person , just to see where they are in their life personally . And then if we start to see yellow flags whether it's the way they're interacting with others and coaching on the platform to see yellow flags , whether it's the way they're interacting with others and coaching on the platform , how they respond to coaching , if there's any kind of pushback or maybe a little bit of pride , are we seeing those types of yellow flags when we're having conversation with them about their personal life , relationship or relational dynamics or things like that . Are there things that the Holy Spirit's like , hey , that's a yellow flag . And if there are , then it's us loving that person enough to sit down and have a conversation with them as they're going through coaching and saying , hey , we see such great potential in you , we are so excited for you to be a part of our community . However , because we love you more than what you bring to the table to us , we want to address and have a conversation with you about some things we notice . So that's from a spiritual aspect .
Speaker 3Practically , when it comes to craft , the great thing about coaching is you know , when someone evaluates , they are putting their best foot forward . It's like a two-minute window snapshot and you're hearing their craft and you're like , oh my gosh , they're incredible . Minute window snapshot and you're hearing their craft and you're like , oh my gosh , they're incredible . Well , over that four to six weeks , the consistency of seeing them , you'll really get to assess their craft . And so if we see that someone is maybe not at the level that we need or that we have the standard that we have to come out of coaching and then step onto our platform more times than not , we'll let them repeat coaching . And at the end of each night , when we get done with coaching , we have conditioned those who are going through coaching to know you get to the end of the night in coaching and we're going to give you feedback , things that we see areas you could grow , that type of thing , and that's feedback that I'm guessing you you have objectified like you've said this is , these are .
Speaker 2These are the expectations if you're a bass player or if you're a singer yes I . I see that a lot when coaching other churches and stuff like that , where they're building teams and they're going . I'm just so frustrated and then they put themselves in the place of their opinion being the one that's making the decision . So it's like I just don't feel like you're good enough yet .
Speaker 1Well , based on what and according to who ?
Speaker 3Yes , Based on who and compared to who , a practical thing .
Speaker 2Yes , that's good , I had a producer in Nashville years ago that used to always tell me according to who and compared to what Right . So now you have objectified , you need to be able to sing in tune . You need to be able to have a tone that lasts through three services . You have to be able to blend with others .
Speaker 3You have to be able to go down the list , you have to listen
Finding the Right Worship Pastor
Speaker 3to a click , all those kind of things .
Speaker 2That way you can point these three areas are green light , but these two or three these are yellows and we need to go back through coaching to get those to green ? Yes , is that kind of what you're ?
Speaker 1saying Absolutely yes , very practical . And we've seen people that have come through coaching the first time and when you give them good , honest information , then they go back and they work on those things and they may come through a second time and work on them again . Like I can think of one guitarist that we have and I'm like , and he went back and he worked again and I think maybe the third time through it was like okay , yeah , you , you worked on what we said you needed to work on . That's right and uh , I love that . I want to . I want to ask a question , okay , um , because I want .
Speaker 1I know that , like , we're talking about how to build and maintain a healthy worship culture . So , um , I know that everything starts from the top and bleeds down , and so , when you're looking at making a campus worship pastor hire and you're the one that's responsible for that and you have to help our campus pastors find the right person what are some qualities that really are the most important that you're looking for in a worship pastor ? That would be the one that would pastor the team , lead the team and basically serve at that campus . Is the point , yes , what are you looking for ? What are some of the things ?
Speaker 3Again , just kind of twofold spiritually and then just in skill . Obviously , spiritually is so important . I'm looking for coachability , looking for humility . I think that's so important as a campus worship pastor to go in and I'm so grateful . I feel like all of our campus worship pastors walk in that . Just a level of humility and coachability . I feel like it's so vital . And then just craft is the level , the standard of their craft . It's so funny because you know someone can have all these incredible things on their resume . At the end of the day I'm like , no , I want to hear you , I want to see you , because to me that's the proof in the pudding . But just going back to the spiritual side , so much of what a worship pastor does is off platform as you all know .
Speaker 2The weekend .
Speaker 3I don't know what the exact percentage is , but probably 60 to 70% of what you do is actually off-platform , and what we do off-platform affects our ability and the impact that we can make on-platform , and so so much of when we are looking at hiring someone as a campus worship pastor , we really hone in , like once we assess their craft and it's like , okay , they've got the craft . We're honing in to see do they seem coachable , do they seem humble , do they seem like a team player ? Do they seem like someone that will get their hands dirty ? And maybe , because they are part of local church , maybe they're asked to do something that seems like it's outside the sphere of being a worship pastor , but just pastoring people . Well , and when we look at worship pastor , we really emphasize the pastor part .
Speaker 3It's like worship , leading worship is so important . Being able to pastor people as you worship and as you lead worship is so vital . And I've seen times when you've got someone who's got a great ability and a gift to lead people into the presence of God but they don't necessarily thrive in the pastoral aspect and so because of that , they're not flourishing in that position and sometimes that's because maybe they push back and they don't want to lean into that area or maybe that's just not something they're really gifted at . But to be a worship pastor , we feel it is so important at Gateway that you know how to pastor people . Pastor people into the presence of God , but then pastor people off that platform and really care about the soul of your team members .
Speaker 1And develop others . Yes and develop others Because one of the things I would say that I think so many of our worship pastors here and I've seen worship pastors that are at other churches do well is they know how to share the platform . It's like they're not the only one leading the song , pastors that are at other churches do well is they know how to share the platform .
Speaker 1They know how it's like they're not the only one leading the song , but they're actually bringing others alongside them , helping them develop as worship leaders , and so it's like our expectation I know here is not that the worship pastor's always the only one leading the songs , but he or her they're actually raising up and developing . And I think that that's important .
Speaker 3That's a value here . Yeah , very much so .
Speaker 1You know okay , so this is interesting .
Speaker 2Yeah , so I have a question . I have another question when it comes to when we're leading teams and I'm putting myself in the shoes of maybe somebody that might be watching this conflict . Not that that ever happens .
Speaker 3Never , especially with creatives .
Speaker 2Right , right Creatives .
Managing Conflict with Kindness and Clarity
Speaker 2So my question is the culture becomes how we embody . It's the how of what we . How we embody , it's the how of what we do . What we do it's not just what we do . It's like how we do it , it's how we march , it's how we work together . It's how we talk .
Speaker 3It's how we collaborate .
Speaker 2And so , when you do have these moments of conflict and connection , what are some of the things that you've learned in helping broker healthy communication ?
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2Because conflict and kindness don't have to be mutually exclusive . Yes , most people think well , conflict is awful and we avoid it at all costs .
Speaker 3Yes .
Speaker 2And really getting to a place where you have candor and kindness running together and then teaching people how to handle conflict well , because conflict is going to happen .
Speaker 3I think .
Speaker 2A lot of times we think oh , it's not going to , but you know it happens . So talk to me about like or give some examples of like . Yeah , this is how we clash and this is how we do well , moving through that conflict .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think it's . We make it a lot easier for ourselves when we actually create and develop relationship with our team members . When you have relational equity with someone , it's a lot and trust . That's right . It's a lot easier to have a hard conversation because that person that on the other side of that conversation knows that you care about them , that you want the best for them and that you love them .
Speaker 3That conversation knows that you care about them , that you want the best for them and that you love them . Those , those kind of conversations are harder to have when you don't feel like that relationship has been developed .
Speaker 3So I think , man , if love is the foundation of those hard conversations , it's a lot harder , or a lot easier , I should say , to have I'm thinking of just a couple that I've had to have not too long ago and just sitting down and setting up that conversation by first affirming that person and saying I love you , I believe in you , you are a blessing to us , not just what you bring , but who you are blessing to us , not just what you bring , but who you are , and just taking a moment to really affirm that person and to communicate the care and the value and the love . And then , after that , then saying because I love you so much , because I care more about who you are than what you bring , I need to share something with you , and then sharing it with them in a loving way and very practically . Michael , before I got to a place that I was comfortable to have those confrontational kind of conversations , I would practice it . I would get by myself and I would practice . How am I going to say this ?
Speaker 2I love that because we can get kind of twisted up and we don't really know and we bury the lead a little bit and then , all of a sudden , you're everybody's confused and it gets worse than it needs , and you fumble and you're like oh my gosh , what am I trying ? To say I love that kind of preparation .
Speaker 3Yes , so , yeah , I would at early on , I would really practice what I wanted to say so that when I got with them I didn't have to really think about it um um . So yeah , just practicing , preparing , starting with showing care and then being very clear too . How many times have we heard like being clear and is kind clear , communication is kind . So not beating around the bush , but being very clear to people because , again , if we care about them , they deserve that . So , being clear with them , making sure they understand where maybe that conflict is or what you're confronting them about , and then making space to say does that make sense ? And then also giving them space to push back . Healthy conversation , I believe , allows that , and what I mean by push back is if they say , well , I don't agree with you .
Speaker 2I don't understand . I don't understand yeah .
Speaker 3Yeah . Then it's asking okay , why don't you agree with me , why don't you understand ? Because you can explain to them and they can nod their head and you can confront something and they can leave the room . But if they didn't really understand and they weren't in agreement with you , or at least submitted and trusting , even if they don't agree , then they could leave the room and it's never resolved .
Speaker 2So I love that . And when you're talking about you know relationship first . You know when you're like , hey , I care about this individual and and more than I care about what they can do for the organization .
Speaker 3That's right .
Speaker 2You know it makes me , and we mentioned trust . Trust is really the fuel that powers all of it and I love if you haven't read , you know Henry Cloud's book on trust , where he breaks down the five essential pillars of trust and how you build it , how you repair it when it's been broken . The types of trust , because sometimes we can like trust one another in one way , but another way we may go . Ah , they may not come through for me that way .
Speaker 3Right .
Speaker 2Like I can trust somebody's character and heart and personality , but they may not show up on time over and , over and over again .
Speaker 3Right .
Speaker 2And they jeopardize our timelines for this rehearsal or whatever it is . Yeah , so , competently , I may not trust them , but I trust their heart . But building that kind of trust , I hear you saying we've got to do the hard work of framing and really trenching , just digging up the soil of trust in our relationships . And then when I have like , if Mark I've got years of relationship , he's a just slightly older brother .
Speaker 2But if he sees something in me , he says , hey , man , that Now he's so kind , though I mean it's just like I almost have to go . Hey , no , really , no really . But if he says , I think you should think about that a little differently , I'm paying attention because I know that there's just years , years of trust built up . I think that's huge . Now , do you have a framework or a transferable way to have your team handle conflict that doesn't involve you ?
Speaker 3Like teaching them how to do it .
Speaker 2Teaching them . Hey guys , this is rules of engagement . Is there anything like that that you guys have developed that's transferable , where you go , other than modeling it ?
Speaker 3that you go .
Speaker 2This is how we do conflict around here .
Speaker 3Yes , going back to just how I have seen it work for me just communicating that with them . Like I was just mentioning , when you're going to sit down and confront someone or address something that's hard or have a hard conversation , addressing it first , showing care to that person , knowing what you want to address , whether you like rehearse it or not .
Speaker 2Knowing what you're wanting to address and being clear about what you're dealing with , but then giving them space to process .
Speaker 3I think that's important , and then at the end , making sure that they do understand you're on the same page . And then what is the plan of action ? That was the other thing that I didn't mention . What is the takeaway ? What is the plan of action ? So again , both being on the same page more times than not .
Speaker 3Again , just in my early years of being a leader , I would think , coming out of the room one thing and then maybe the team member a whole different story or perspective , because I didn't take the time at the end of that conversation to make sure we were on the same page and we knew , okay , what are the next steps moving forward . So I feel like our team and our leaders have an understanding of that's how we do things here at Gateway and we are intentional to over and over communicate to our leaders guys . We care more about our team members and who they are , who they're becoming , than what they bring to the table . So that is just something that is almost like broken record . We repeat that we're intentional with that .
Speaker 2That word and I was just going to jump in and just say intentional .
Speaker 3I've heard you say that word a few times .
Speaker 2That's just a good reminder for everybody that we don't drift into clarity .
Speaker 3Yes .
Speaker 2We don't drift into awesomeness .
Speaker 3We don't drift into cohesion .
Speaker 2You have to be intentional . Take time to define . Take time to
Kind Truth: The Balance in Leadership
Speaker 2create a clear pathway for the conversation . Take time to objectify the standards that you're looking for and it just makes the pathway you know , makes the pathway so much smoother . Yes , Down the line .
Speaker 1And the thing is is if you go into a conversation unprepared , that's when it can get sideways , that's right . That's so true , I mean so many of us are ready fire aim . It's like I'm going to say it and it's like , and I think when you're going to have a crucial conversation that is sensitive , I think you have to be ready Aim , aim , aim aim aim aim , aim , aim , aim aim then fire , and I hate to use that terminology , because we're not trying to shoot someone to bring them down , but what you're ?
Speaker 1trying to do is you're trying to walk in to the conversation very prepared and many times I've seen Hope do this and I know our team . We will discuss it over and over again and write down so that we have clarity what we're going to confront .
Speaker 1And you know how the pastor say to me , when I moved back into central worship from the campus and knowing that here's where you do have to confront a bit more I think even ministry period , though it's campuses or central but he challenged me . He said , mark , you have to be okay with the tension in the room . And I was like , okay , well , what does that mean ? And so he challenged me . He said , mark , sometimes you want to candy coat stuff to the point that you don't get your point across .
Speaker 2Just get to it . Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1And so where I've gotten to and I think this is and I've said this in hopes for me to say this you should be able to say anything in the room , as long as your heart's pure , because out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks .
Speaker 1If I'm worried about giving my thought , that might be a little bit , you know , it might cause some tension then it could be because my heart's not the way that it should be towards that person and I've got to walk in with the heart full of love and then , if it's coming from a place of love and care for them , then I can say what needs to be said . But I also agree sometimes if you don't have the relational equity , it's hard because that person has no knowledge of whether or not they can trust what you're telling them . And the one thing that I would say and I've seen Hope do this and I will say this and I've seen Hope do this and I will say this Number one okay , so the elephant in the room a little bit would be she's a lady and she leads many guys that are worship pastors and we're going to have another podcast about that .
Speaker 2If you'd be willing to come back . Women in leadership is important .
Speaker 1Yes , it's important , yeah , because we've had girls reach out and say hey , is the worship table for women , worship pastors too , women that serve in worship Absolutely , and that's one of the reasons like loving having Hope on here , because she leads . She doesn't like she's not over women's ministry , she's over worship ministry , which involves men and women and so .
Speaker 1but I've seen her time and time again build relationship through care and through sitting in meetings and listening to the heart of every worship pastor , regardless , and they learn hey , I can trust that she has a heart for me . When they trust that you have a heart for them , then you can have a crucial conversation . And here's the thing . There's a great graph that I saw years ago and it's like and so in the church , sometimes over here , is this artificial harmony and it's artificial unity and artificial honor . I always say it's A-H , artificial honor . Or I always say it's .
Speaker 1A-H . Artificial honor or artificial harmony .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , yeah , so over here is mean-spirited personal attacks .
Speaker 1Okay , so they're on opposite ends of the spectrum . So most of the people that serve in churches they live over here in this . It's great , everything's great , but they go into another meeting and they say I can't stand the way that they do . But they'll never tell the person , the person never gets the feedback , yeah , okay . And then finally one day they're fed up and then it turns into this big mean spirit and personal attack Extremes yeah yeah , and what Hope was saying right in the middle is this thing called kind truth .
Speaker 1That's right in the middle is this thing called kind truth . It's where the Lord wants us to live and when you're pastoring a team you have to live in kind truth . You can't live in this place of artificial honor and harmony because it will lead to You'll skip any kind truth . Because you'll get fed up and then you're going to kind of that's when you're going to be , it's ready fire fire , fire , fire fire .
Speaker 3And then you aim later . Or what ends up happening when we try to avoid confrontation or we avoid those crucial conversations it can end up festering .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 3And then what ends up happening is , if a person is unhealthy on your team because you won't have an honest conversation with them , not only will it affect them , it will end up affecting the rest of your team . It affects unity .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , we've already kept you longer than we said we were going to , I hope .
Speaker 2but your ministry obviously speaks for itself and I want to talk about at some point like leading in crisis , because Gateway's been through a lot and how you lead and minister to your team not just staff , but just in general and the worship ministry is a big deal . Women in leadership you're walking that out and have been for a long time , and it's important that we pay attention to that , honor that and learn from it , and so we need your voice .
Speaker 3We do the great voice , and so I hope you'll come back . You'll come back , absolutely . I'd be excited to .
Speaker 2All right . Well , we're really excited . Thank you , hope and Mark . We're going to do this again real soon . Awesome , awesome , all right .